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The Camera Gap turns out bigger than expected

In the run-up to SEE 2009, I'd been mulling over which smartphones to take for blogging purposes - and one of my requirements, obviously, had to be something with a camera that was good enough. Below are my thoughts and findings, in which I discover that one of my own theories wasn't necessarily true...

You'll remember a series I did called 'Camera Nitty Gritty', in which I examined certain aspects of phone camera performance in detail. In particular, 'The Megapixel Myth' postulated that a decent 3 megapixel phone camera could produce results that were comparable, at normal viewing sizes and resolutions, with those from an 8 megapixel camera (for example).

But I did warn at the time that there were many other factors that should be borne in mind: the quality of a photo from a camera phone also depends on the lens size and quality (i.e. the optics), the (physical) size and quality of the CMOS sensor and the quality of the software algorithms that decode the raw data from the sensor into sensibly sized JPGs that you or I can save, view and print. And, arguably, on the cleanliness and condition of the external camera glass.

And so we come to my somewhat anecdotal dilemma for covering the show, which I include here for interest's sake. My original plan was to bring along the trusty Nokia E75, with the benefit of the great QWERTY keyboard. Perfect for snapping new phones and stands and then firing off the images, with descriptions, to the live AAS show feed.

Now, the E75 has a non-branded (i.e. not Carl Zeiss) lens and a 3 megapixel sensor. It's the same hardware as in the E90, has a decent lens size (meaning good-ish performance, even away from bright sunlight) and mature software algorithms (hence the better photos when compared to those from the E90). And, to be honest, for casual use I've been more than happy with the E75's photos, when viewed in isolation.

However, it occurred to me to check the quality of its output against that from the current Nokia imaging flagship, the N86 8MP. I knew, of course, that the N86's photos would be better, but the real question was how much better. After correcting (resampling down) for actual resolution (which is rarely needed at full 8MP), in this case down to 750 pixels wide for viewing on the page on All About Symbian, I was expecting the E75's photos to be in the same ballpark, at least, as those from the N86. As you'll see from the examples below, I was wrong.

My aim was to capture some of the glorious Autumn colours (I love this time of year) in a bit of rare UK sunshine. It's the sort of situation where you're out and about and come across something really picturesque - you want to capture the scene and its colours for posterity and your phone is the device you have with you. Yes, the E75 does an acceptable job of recording the moment and I don't want you to think I'm slamming it - after all, it's a messaging phone first and foremost and having a good camera is just a nice bonus. 

BUT - look at the colour differences between the results from the E75 (first, in each case) and then the N86 (second, obviously):

E75 photo sample 1

N86 photo sample 1

Far more (naturally) vivid, far more satisfying and far more memorable. Let's take some other examples from my Autumn foray:

E75 photo sample 3

N86 photo sample 3

...and another:

E75 photo sample 4

N86 photo sample 4

By this time, I was somewhat in awe of how well the N86's camera was doing, in terms of interpreting the autumn colours and matching what my eyes were seeing. And yes, I've talked before of how one's eyes and perception of colours are always an illusion in the first place, but I'd rate the latter photos as far more accurate - from my own point of view.

In fact, I regretted not taking along one of the Nokia 5 megapixel Carl Zeiss camera phones, such as the N97 or N95, for comparison - my gut feeling is that these would produce results halfway between the example sets above.

The moral of the tale though is that, although the Megapixel Myth is true as far as sheer resolution goes, the use of higher spec lenses and sensors does produce significantly better photos. As one might expect, though I think I've demonstrated above that when the light levels in a scene are very high (e.g. in full sunlight and with high contrast) then the results are dramatically better than you might even guess.

And yes, this short piece is also yet another vote of confidence in the Nokia N86 8MP as a camera phone - it's certainly limited by its QVGA screen and the use of S60 3rd Edition, but if taking high quality photos is your bag then it's still surely got to be on the shortlist.

As for me, heading off for SEE 2009 tomorrow, I've plumped for the N97 for photoblogging duties, with its Carl Zeiss lens getting good enough colours into my photos while also providing the QWERTY keyboard for composing the words.

And what of the N86 itself? As superb as its stills are, its videos are better. The sound and visuals taken when capturing video with the N86 are so good that it's going to be my main video interviewing tool.

Steve Litchfield, All About Symbian, 25 October 2009

 

Published by Steve Litchfield at 16:32 UTC, October 25th

Categories: Miscellaneous, Editorial Thoughts
Platforms: General, S60 3rd Edition

News Discussion

davecozens
Comment: I've pretty much stopped using my n97 camera for now. we'll see what happens with later firmware.

Indoors the auto flash is a red eye nightmare. without flash (unless everbody is totally totally still - including me) then everything is shockingly blurry.

Outdoors, it does well in ideal conditions. But the macro auto focus is a bit touch and go...

And the 5 screen presses to go menu > scene > pick scene > back > exit is just too much. should be on-screen scene and flash shortcuts, where picking something takes you back to camera mode... i.e. pickscene > macro [back to main]

I love what the N97 could be. the touch screen is pretty good. the keyboard is great when you get ued to it. But the camera makes me yearn for my n95... I hope they tweak it soon...
djmuzi
Comment: Hmm if you want to have vivid colours, you shoud take the N73
[url]http://www.ipernity.com/doc/djmuzi/6337756/sizes[/url]

Allmost as good as the N86 ;)
[url]http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=131020091279gsk.jpg[/url]

Not much difference if you look at the pictures at normal size on your computer moitor.

The new 3 megapixels phones are not comparable to the good old N73 in no way!
timsalmon
Comment: Things are almost always a compromise. It depends what you're taking photos for. Where they're destined. On a website? Blog? Blowing up to A1 as a poster on a wall? 6x4 print to throw on the coffee table/magnet-attach to fridge? Send to Granny? I've banged on about this before and although I concede that sure enough when compared next to each other the E75 pics are 'inferior' to the N86 ones in Steve's article, in real life we're not comparing pics with other ones and our very clever brains 'make good' pictures so we can enjoy viewing them. I'd be happy with the 'lesser' pics here unless I was specifically wanting to make a large print.

Tim
JohnnyN
Comment: Careful Steve,

A camera thread isn't complete without a whiny "xenon or nothing" post. ;)
Juan Ortiz
Comment: I knew it: my N86 8MP was a great acquisition! :)
I love to take pictures with my cellphone and for this purpose I've owned this devices: SE K700, SE W600, SE K750, SE K550, Zonda 2000, Nokia N82, Nokia N85 and Nokia N86 8MP.
Arthur
Comment: Want to take pictures? Get yourself a decent compact camera or better yet a proper DSLR. Sorry but not intereseted in some pin sized lens shots from your crappy Nokia.
Jejoma
Comment: The main problem with the E75 seemed to be that it had a blue wash (Assuming that was not just my computer). Can't that be taken out in the settings somewhere?
Unregistered
Comment: Phone camera = poor camera. Some are poorer than others but they are all shyte.
slitchfield
Comment: Arthur & Unregistered: You're both wrong - the N86 8MP has the same sensor in it as many standalone cameras. The only restriction is on lens size - for most light conditions, the N86 can take just as good a photo as a standalone. And possibly better, since you'll have better depth of field. AND it will always be with you.

Damian, if you're still reading all this, well done. Now get your N86 team to fix up the firmware oddities and you're done 8-)
djmuzi
Comment: [quote=Unregistered;443711]Phone camera = poor camera. Some are poorer than others but they are all shyte.[/quote]

But there are not much people running around with their DSLR every day :)

Some people enjoy take pictures with their camera phone :) I have tons of pics since the beginning with the Nokia 7650 :) With my normal camera I dont have that much pictures.
djmuzi
Comment: [quote=slitchfield;443712]Arthur & Unregistered: You're both wrong - the N86 8MP has the same sensor in it as many standalone cameras. The only restriction is on lens size - for most light conditions, the N86 can take just as good a photo as a standalone. And possibly better, since you'll have better depth of field. AND it will always be with you.

Damian, if you're still reading all this, well done. Now get your N86 team to fix up the firmware oddities and you're done 8-)[/quote]

But there is still too much compression and jpeg-artefakts that makes the N86 only as goos as a 3.2 megapixels digital camera.
jApi NL
Comment: For Camera Phones + points :

Tested are qualities for :
- Camera and screen
- easy use and multipurpose
- battery-use at capture and PC transfer

1) N79 74
2) 6220Classic 73
3) N95 8GB 73
4) N86 8MB 73
5) 6500Slide 71
6) N97 71
7) SS jet 70
8) SS i900 Omnia 70
9) N85 69
10) E75 68

To close to call ...... ?

N86 has better autumn-yellow IMO .

:) Regards jApi NL
Unregistered
Comment: I have a DSLR, digital compact (G10) and N86. They all have their uses. The N86 obviously fairing the worst, but the pictures are still pretty good - almost as good as dedicated compacts from two years ago. So yes they are a compromised, but unlike my DSLR and G10, I always have my phone with me which is great for snapping moments when I am not willing to carry bulky cameras with me.

Arthur, what do you use?
Arthur
Comment: Want to take pictures? Get yourself a decent compact camera or better yet a proper DSLR. Sorry but not intereseted in some pin sized lens shots from your crappy Nokia.
djmuzi
Comment: [quote=Arthur;443720]Want to take pictures? Get yourself a decent compact camera or better yet a proper DSLR. Sorry but not intereseted in some pin sized lens shots from your crappy Nokia.[/quote]

Déjà-vu... :rolleyes:
seki
Comment: Steve .. why not take the N86 and your bluetooth keyboard?
Zaqfalcon
Comment: Steve,

The issue you seem to have a problem with here is the difference in the two camera's interpretations of 'White Balance'. It is a perenial issue and one most photographers address to their own taste initially in the processing of RAW files. It was alluded to above by Jejoma as "a blue wash".

Although it has carry over to the issues you refer to in your Camera Nitty Gritty Postscript article, particularly brightness and saturation, it is an independent one not previously mentioned (I'm not saying the article is wrong, quite the opposite, just incomplete). It concerns assessment of the temperature of the light in a scene and the subsequent assignment of colours to the data collected by the sensor. Please read this article for more info:

[URL="http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/white-balance.htm"]http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/white-balance.htm[/URL]

This particular issue [U]could[/U] be fixed for pictures from any camera irrespective of other quality matters through:
[LIST=1]
[*]Camera Firmware changes to the way the sensor data is interpreted from RAW file to JPEG;
[*]Camera Software to allow changes to the JPEG to be made to alter white balance after the shot is taken (although this will create JPEG re-compression issues);
[*]Using computer software that can alter white balance in JPEGs (again this creates JPEG re-compression issues); or
[*]Using computer RAW editing software to alter the RAW file to output a JPEG (the best method but not currently possible as there is no access to phone camera RAW files).
[/LIST]

These issues are the same ones that users of other types of camera equipment have been trying to tackle for years and often come down to personal preference as you point out in your article. As cameraphone users become more discerning so the demand for tools to express these personal preferences will grow; namely access to RAW files and the ability to edit them. I don't think it is really fair to judge the cameras themselves on these issues.

Cheers.
slitchfield
Comment: [quote=seki;443722]Steve .. why not take the N86 and your bluetooth keyboard?[/quote]

It had crossed my mind. But the N86's battery is going to be hit hard anyway through the day, with over two hours of video recording. I just wanted to split the workload a little 8-)

And yes, I've got a Proporta charger *as well*. Me - belt and braces? - oh yes. Taking along an N95 as WELL!
Unregistered
Comment: It's true that you are more likely to use a camera phone than a DSLR or digital compact because the camera phone is likely to be with you all the time but...

The point is that all phone cameras are poor, so you don't really expect to get a crisp clean image with the phone, it's like digital cameras about 1995 quality.

So, I don't see much point in worrying whether this phone takes slightly less cr@p pictures than that phone. Digital cameras either capture good quality images (leave the compostion factor out of the debate) or they don't and at the moment, the cameras in phones don't. When a phone does (and that is going to take a miracle breakthrough sensors/lens) then it will be worth considering.
DamianDinning
Comment: [quote=djmuzi;443715]But there is still too much compression and jpeg-artefakts that makes the N86 only as goos as a 3.2 megapixels digital camera.[/quote]

Completely agree that megapixels does not automatically = better pics, in many cases it can mean worse image quality.

However, having been involved in the N73 I feel confident in saying that N86 8MP is the best camera we have done to date. Detail is greater and more natural + colour is more consistent. As good as the N73 was for the time there are some false colour issues from time to time which we've seen a lot of development in over recent years, even in the time between the first and latest N86 fw. I personally believe N86 colour is one of the best performing mobiles in this regard. Vibrant but still true to life. Some products provide vibrant colour but which then compromise the true to life part. It's a tough balance, especially when you throw in subjective views too ;-)

As for compression. I've covered this so many times ;-) There are no visible compression based artefacts in the images captured with the N86 which reducing the compression level would make any noticeable difference to. I know this because we checked this again just very recently comparing images with current v20 fw settings and a modified version with no compression.

atb

D
neilhoskins
Comment: Steve, I think what you're seeing there is a colour balance issue. The E75 is sensing the fact that the light is quite warm and is "correcting" for it. Try a setting ("cloudy"?) that assumes quite cold light to give you a warmer finished product. It's not just phones that do this: I have the same issue with my "proper" camera, which, left on "automatic", will completely ruin the warm light of an early morning or late evening.
Unregistered
Comment: Arthur=FAIL.
Unregistered
Comment: "Want to take pictures? Get yourself a decent compact camera or better yet a proper DSLR. Sorry but not intereseted in some pin sized lens shots from your crappy Nokia."

Sorry, not interested in your crappy little comments. You really are a prize *rseh*le.
ccrobopid
Comment: Hello,

the differences you are seeing in your pictures is just because of the auto setting on white balance.. just use manual (try cloudy for a warmer image) and you will have more control on the rendition of the colors.. You can also give a try to the vivid setting in "Color tone"...
Unregistered
Comment: [quote=Unregistered;443719]I have a DSLR, digital compact (G10) and N86. They all have their uses. The N86 obviously fairing the worst, but the pictures are still pretty good - almost as good as dedicated compacts from two years ago. So yes they are a compromised, but unlike my DSLR and G10, I always have my phone with me which is great for snapping moments when I am not willing to carry bulky cameras with me.

Arthur, what do you use?[/quote]

What's interesting about this post is that many of the latest line of digital compacts that coming out are not as good (image quality) as cameras were 2 or more years ago. However, I can categorically assure everybody that the N86 is nowhere near them, and is never likely to be given the sensor size and glass used. Only the basic cheapo cameras have images as bad as phones. That's all phones. Satios, Pixons, N86 included. That's the pointless cheap cameras that have the same sort of sensors, basically the toys.

Phone cameras ARE great for snapping those moments. Important word there, "snapping". Just don't expect anything more than mediocre image quality and don't worry about getting anal over the quality. No point trying to polish a turd. Go to a shop selling compact digital cameras, look at the size of the piece of glass over the front of the lens. Then look the equivalent component on your phone. Physics.

 

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